Forum: Subtitling
Topic: What is a decent rate in Europe?
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: Caution per minute versus per video minute; amount of work involved
Unfortunately, some translators are not at all clear on the per-minute concept or the work involved in subtitling.
Please have a look at the reference below. Even though juvera makes the point that per minute refers to per video-minute, she then goes on to say that this kind of work does and should pay less than normal translations which is completely false (sorry). The amount of work involved in subtitling is always much more than text translation (unless you are given a written/typed text to translate without any instructions/requirements).
juvera who is trying to correct a misunderstanding actually displays quite a few misunderstandings on her part.
So, the following comments (juvera's comments below) are not acceptable conclusions to me and they represent misguided attitudes/expectations (as far as I am concerned).
[quote]juvera wrote:
The rates are generally lower than what you would get doing other translations. Let's face it, if you understand everyday language and a certain amount of slang, it should be easier to translate subtitles than medical, technical or other specialised text, and the sentences are usually shorter, or at least there are lots of short sentences.
A good subtitling company also provides some research.
All that means it is usually faster to do, so there is some justification of the lower price.
[/quote]
My take on it:
The rates should be much higher than what you would get doing other translations (because the work is most often much more difficult and complex involving transcription and translation/ understanding audio, working with strict time limits for the translated text, fast speech, regional dialects, etc.)
Everyday language and a certain amount of slang is often much harder to understand because the person speaks much faster, speaks a regional dialect, abbreviates, pronounces words differently, combines syllables, leaves out syllables, etc.
Neither spoken slang nor medical, technical or other specialized text are easier to understand and translate than written text (you would have to work off a script to put this on a par with typed text), and sentences are not necessarily shorter; from my own experience, most often, a lot of text is crammed into one minute, meaning the speech is usually pretty fast and the sentences can be quite long - this makes it hard to achieve the goals set by time limits.
So read the following with caution: it's a reference for how misunderstood subtitling work is amongst translators:
From:
[url removed]
[quote]juvera wrote:
[quote]GoodWords wrote:
How do you know how much to charge per unit of your time? The idea is that you should earn approximately the same amount of money in a given time period whether you are translating and charging by volume, or subtitling and charging by time. It doesn't make sense to price yourself cheaper by one method than the other. Thus, don't set your time rate based on someone else's suggestions, but on your own rates.
How to calculate your hourly rate (and by extension your rate per minute)? How many words can you translate per hour in an average text (mid-way between the hardest and easiest texts you typically translate)? Don't forget to account for time spent on research and proofreading.
To help you get an accurate idea of what to bill, try tracking the total time spent for a few of your typical translation projects. Divide the total earned by the exact time spent translating, researching and proofreading to find out how much you earned per hour of work.
[Edited at 2006-08-18 20:11] [/quote]
I think there is a basic misunderstanding here.
When they talk about 'price per minute' in subtitling, they are not talking about the amount of time the translator spends translating, but the length of the film, documentary stb.
The big difference is that you won't necessarily know in advance, how verbose the project is going to be. The wordcount between 90min feature films can vary up to 60-70% or even more!(Think of monosyllabic John Wain and all the time spent riding, hiding, shooting, or a Jerry Springer TV episode where there isn't enough time to draw breath, because there are three people speaking non-stop at the same time.) Regardless of translating 80 words or 150 per minute, you still end up being paid the same amount.
However, if you do a variety of projects for the company for a period of time, it evens out at the end.
The rates are generally lower than what you would get doing other translations. Let's face it, if you understand everyday language and a certain amount of slang, it should be easier to translate subtitles than medical, technical or other specialised text, and the sentences are usually shorter, or at least there are lots of short sentences.
A good subtitling company also provides some research.
All that means it is usually faster to do, so there is some justification of the lower price.
On the other hand, if you are not experienced, you will find the constrains of subtitling difficult at the beginning. It takes time to learn the ropes.
Sorry, that I am so late with this posting that it may not help you, but I thought it is better late than never.
Good luck.
Judith
[/quote]
PS III: the name of the actor in the quoted text is correctly spelled like this: John Wayne
[Edited at 2014-04-05 22:31 GMT]
Topic: What is a decent rate in Europe?
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: Caution per minute versus per video minute; amount of work involved
Unfortunately, some translators are not at all clear on the per-minute concept or the work involved in subtitling.
Please have a look at the reference below. Even though juvera makes the point that per minute refers to per video-minute, she then goes on to say that this kind of work does and should pay less than normal translations which is completely false (sorry). The amount of work involved in subtitling is always much more than text translation (unless you are given a written/typed text to translate without any instructions/requirements).
juvera who is trying to correct a misunderstanding actually displays quite a few misunderstandings on her part.
So, the following comments (juvera's comments below) are not acceptable conclusions to me and they represent misguided attitudes/expectations (as far as I am concerned).
[quote]juvera wrote:
The rates are generally lower than what you would get doing other translations. Let's face it, if you understand everyday language and a certain amount of slang, it should be easier to translate subtitles than medical, technical or other specialised text, and the sentences are usually shorter, or at least there are lots of short sentences.
A good subtitling company also provides some research.
All that means it is usually faster to do, so there is some justification of the lower price.
[/quote]
My take on it:
The rates should be much higher than what you would get doing other translations (because the work is most often much more difficult and complex involving transcription and translation/ understanding audio, working with strict time limits for the translated text, fast speech, regional dialects, etc.)
Everyday language and a certain amount of slang is often much harder to understand because the person speaks much faster, speaks a regional dialect, abbreviates, pronounces words differently, combines syllables, leaves out syllables, etc.
Neither spoken slang nor medical, technical or other specialized text are easier to understand and translate than written text (you would have to work off a script to put this on a par with typed text), and sentences are not necessarily shorter; from my own experience, most often, a lot of text is crammed into one minute, meaning the speech is usually pretty fast and the sentences can be quite long - this makes it hard to achieve the goals set by time limits.
So read the following with caution: it's a reference for how misunderstood subtitling work is amongst translators:
From:
[url removed]
[quote]juvera wrote:
[quote]GoodWords wrote:
How do you know how much to charge per unit of your time? The idea is that you should earn approximately the same amount of money in a given time period whether you are translating and charging by volume, or subtitling and charging by time. It doesn't make sense to price yourself cheaper by one method than the other. Thus, don't set your time rate based on someone else's suggestions, but on your own rates.
How to calculate your hourly rate (and by extension your rate per minute)? How many words can you translate per hour in an average text (mid-way between the hardest and easiest texts you typically translate)? Don't forget to account for time spent on research and proofreading.
To help you get an accurate idea of what to bill, try tracking the total time spent for a few of your typical translation projects. Divide the total earned by the exact time spent translating, researching and proofreading to find out how much you earned per hour of work.
[Edited at 2006-08-18 20:11] [/quote]
I think there is a basic misunderstanding here.
When they talk about 'price per minute' in subtitling, they are not talking about the amount of time the translator spends translating, but the length of the film, documentary stb.
The big difference is that you won't necessarily know in advance, how verbose the project is going to be. The wordcount between 90min feature films can vary up to 60-70% or even more!(Think of monosyllabic John Wain and all the time spent riding, hiding, shooting, or a Jerry Springer TV episode where there isn't enough time to draw breath, because there are three people speaking non-stop at the same time.) Regardless of translating 80 words or 150 per minute, you still end up being paid the same amount.
However, if you do a variety of projects for the company for a period of time, it evens out at the end.
The rates are generally lower than what you would get doing other translations. Let's face it, if you understand everyday language and a certain amount of slang, it should be easier to translate subtitles than medical, technical or other specialised text, and the sentences are usually shorter, or at least there are lots of short sentences.
A good subtitling company also provides some research.
All that means it is usually faster to do, so there is some justification of the lower price.
On the other hand, if you are not experienced, you will find the constrains of subtitling difficult at the beginning. It takes time to learn the ropes.
Sorry, that I am so late with this posting that it may not help you, but I thought it is better late than never.
Good luck.
Judith
[/quote]
PS III: the name of the actor in the quoted text is correctly spelled like this: John Wayne
[Edited at 2014-04-05 22:31 GMT]