Forum: Subtitling
Topic: Any recommendation for a non-cloud proprietary subtitling/captioning software written in .NET?
Poster: Novian Cahyadi
Post title: Agreed
[quote]Michel Virasolvy wrote:
First, if a client turns you down because you're using FOSS for subtitling, it's already a yellow flag. It means that company does not know anything about the professional subtitling industry, and they most likely never worked with professional translators, at all. Best case scenario, they had a bad experience with some scammer and they infered from that single experience that all language service providers must have 8K€ softwares to produce the 100% text files that are subtitle files.
[/quote]
I wouldn't know for sure. But I prefer to see it just like the CAT tools. Not all translators work using Trados or MemoQ. But I'd imagine having either one of those at their disposal would smooth things out for them.
Then again, we subtitlers are less dependent on a particular gimmick the software has. So maybe I'm the crazy one here.
[quote]
Second, the fact they demand you to use a proprietary software, and you accepting, means you're okay with them bossing you around like trash before discarding you. If you're freelance, you're the one setting the rules, your client, no matter the size, is your client. If you say you use FOSS to work and they don't want to work with you, it's their loss, not yours. You have the skills and experience, it's only fair they agree to your terms of service… and rates. That here is a red flag for me.
[/quote]
One of (I guess) my biggest weaknesses is that when I love something, I'd be obsessed with it. That also includes my profession. Back when I was working as an apprentice cook, there was one time when our hotel had a full occupancy. The hotel offered free breakfast, so unsurprisingly, that was a very busy morning. On top of that, there were a lot of banquet events on lunch and dinner as well. I believe I worked for (or at least nearly) 24 hours straight without taking a break. I felt like I had the obligation to give my best, even though a lot of the guests were kind of rude. My friend in college who had a background in psychology had warned me about this. Guess some things never change.
Ah, sorry for the random outburst. I can't help but feeling nostalgic, even for things happened not too long ago. Another one of my weakness. :-D
Anyway, I think this is where freelance translators and agencies/end-clients have different perspectives at. A lot of freelance translators, myself included, view themselves as business partners. In fact, legally speaking, we are referred as independent contractors. We shouldn't be different than those who build highways or skyscrapers. Yet, many agencies/end-clients consider us as nothing more than cheap labors. This very recent [url= [url removed] ]thread[/url] perfectly mirrors that perception of mine.
[quote]
On a side note, if you subtitle a work of fiction, you are also considered an author and your client is therefore expected to sign a collective contract to pay you first the commission (for the work itself) and royalties (every 6 months, for exploitation). I'm mentioning this here because a number of VOD companies are still trying their absolute best to lobby their way out of royalties. If you weren't aware, now, you know.
[/quote]
I actually looked up about this. In some contracts, it was stated that I would have to agree to transfer the rights for the subtitles I translated and/or created. I was trying to find ways how to improve the situation, but I wasn't sure what to do and I was concerned it'd backfire on me. I'll think again about it, thank you for reminding me.
[quote]
Third, even assuming you do find a good proprietary .NET software to reassure your potential clients, if you don't already have some background experience or a valid ISO 17100 certification to show them you're worth the money, they may still deny you any kind of collaboration.
[/quote]
That's not the worst idea, actually. I've been thinking to get some sort of certification if only for the sake of marketing. Too bad Netflix shut down HERMES, I could've taken advantage of that.
[quote]
Worse, if your current, paying client just doesn't have any more text to send your way, you're in for a ride because these days, proprietary softwares are monetized ‘as a service’, meaning you'll have to keep paying to use them or go back to SE anyway.
[/quote]
Yes, that was a bit of my concern. I'd probably pick something with per-new version license renewal policy. So if I couldn't afford it, I can just not upgrade and keep the older version.
[quote]
For these minor, questionable reasons, I suggest you either stand your grounds as a Linux-based professional, or get to Windows in the hope to find clients able to pay you the software you seek and cover your licence fees.
[/quote]
The second option is definitely a no go for me. I kept having to fix issues everytime there was an update on Windows. And if I wanted to keep using that OS by upgrading to Windows 11, I'll have to buy a new PC, as my laptop is still rocking Sandy Bridge. Linux is a much better option IMHO. There has been less headaches since I migrated to it. I'm totally happy with this. :-)
[quote]
To some extent, I would appreciate if SE had a FOSS competitor. But to go proprietary for the sake of having 1 or 2 clients who will treat you like a worthless commodity? That's like accepting to be handcuffed to a typewriter and thrown down a well. Who in their right mind would agree to that?
[/quote]
I probably would have to say that I have no intention to replace Aegisub and SE with a proprietary subtitling software. I know the former two almost like the back of my hand. I don't think it's reasonable to just throw away tools I'm proficient with. When a client doesn't require me to use a particular software, I'll just rotate between various tools I have installed to keep myself in shape. The proprietary software would only be an addition to the collection, not a replacement.
[quote]
Just a reminder, though: that's only my take on the matter. If Novian can find his typew… I mean, his proprietary subtitling software, good for him.
[/quote]
No, I think you're right. I'll keep trying to find the software I'm looking for. But if I don't find it, I won't be too concerned. Thank you for your suggestions anyway, much appreciated. :-)
[Edited at 2021-12-10 03:35 GMT]
Topic: Any recommendation for a non-cloud proprietary subtitling/captioning software written in .NET?
Poster: Novian Cahyadi
Post title: Agreed
[quote]Michel Virasolvy wrote:
First, if a client turns you down because you're using FOSS for subtitling, it's already a yellow flag. It means that company does not know anything about the professional subtitling industry, and they most likely never worked with professional translators, at all. Best case scenario, they had a bad experience with some scammer and they infered from that single experience that all language service providers must have 8K€ softwares to produce the 100% text files that are subtitle files.
[/quote]
I wouldn't know for sure. But I prefer to see it just like the CAT tools. Not all translators work using Trados or MemoQ. But I'd imagine having either one of those at their disposal would smooth things out for them.
Then again, we subtitlers are less dependent on a particular gimmick the software has. So maybe I'm the crazy one here.
[quote]
Second, the fact they demand you to use a proprietary software, and you accepting, means you're okay with them bossing you around like trash before discarding you. If you're freelance, you're the one setting the rules, your client, no matter the size, is your client. If you say you use FOSS to work and they don't want to work with you, it's their loss, not yours. You have the skills and experience, it's only fair they agree to your terms of service… and rates. That here is a red flag for me.
[/quote]
One of (I guess) my biggest weaknesses is that when I love something, I'd be obsessed with it. That also includes my profession. Back when I was working as an apprentice cook, there was one time when our hotel had a full occupancy. The hotel offered free breakfast, so unsurprisingly, that was a very busy morning. On top of that, there were a lot of banquet events on lunch and dinner as well. I believe I worked for (or at least nearly) 24 hours straight without taking a break. I felt like I had the obligation to give my best, even though a lot of the guests were kind of rude. My friend in college who had a background in psychology had warned me about this. Guess some things never change.
Ah, sorry for the random outburst. I can't help but feeling nostalgic, even for things happened not too long ago. Another one of my weakness. :-D
Anyway, I think this is where freelance translators and agencies/end-clients have different perspectives at. A lot of freelance translators, myself included, view themselves as business partners. In fact, legally speaking, we are referred as independent contractors. We shouldn't be different than those who build highways or skyscrapers. Yet, many agencies/end-clients consider us as nothing more than cheap labors. This very recent [url= [url removed] ]thread[/url] perfectly mirrors that perception of mine.
[quote]
On a side note, if you subtitle a work of fiction, you are also considered an author and your client is therefore expected to sign a collective contract to pay you first the commission (for the work itself) and royalties (every 6 months, for exploitation). I'm mentioning this here because a number of VOD companies are still trying their absolute best to lobby their way out of royalties. If you weren't aware, now, you know.
[/quote]
I actually looked up about this. In some contracts, it was stated that I would have to agree to transfer the rights for the subtitles I translated and/or created. I was trying to find ways how to improve the situation, but I wasn't sure what to do and I was concerned it'd backfire on me. I'll think again about it, thank you for reminding me.
[quote]
Third, even assuming you do find a good proprietary .NET software to reassure your potential clients, if you don't already have some background experience or a valid ISO 17100 certification to show them you're worth the money, they may still deny you any kind of collaboration.
[/quote]
That's not the worst idea, actually. I've been thinking to get some sort of certification if only for the sake of marketing. Too bad Netflix shut down HERMES, I could've taken advantage of that.
[quote]
Worse, if your current, paying client just doesn't have any more text to send your way, you're in for a ride because these days, proprietary softwares are monetized ‘as a service’, meaning you'll have to keep paying to use them or go back to SE anyway.
[/quote]
Yes, that was a bit of my concern. I'd probably pick something with per-new version license renewal policy. So if I couldn't afford it, I can just not upgrade and keep the older version.
[quote]
For these minor, questionable reasons, I suggest you either stand your grounds as a Linux-based professional, or get to Windows in the hope to find clients able to pay you the software you seek and cover your licence fees.
[/quote]
The second option is definitely a no go for me. I kept having to fix issues everytime there was an update on Windows. And if I wanted to keep using that OS by upgrading to Windows 11, I'll have to buy a new PC, as my laptop is still rocking Sandy Bridge. Linux is a much better option IMHO. There has been less headaches since I migrated to it. I'm totally happy with this. :-)
[quote]
To some extent, I would appreciate if SE had a FOSS competitor. But to go proprietary for the sake of having 1 or 2 clients who will treat you like a worthless commodity? That's like accepting to be handcuffed to a typewriter and thrown down a well. Who in their right mind would agree to that?
[/quote]
I probably would have to say that I have no intention to replace Aegisub and SE with a proprietary subtitling software. I know the former two almost like the back of my hand. I don't think it's reasonable to just throw away tools I'm proficient with. When a client doesn't require me to use a particular software, I'll just rotate between various tools I have installed to keep myself in shape. The proprietary software would only be an addition to the collection, not a replacement.
[quote]
Just a reminder, though: that's only my take on the matter. If Novian can find his typew… I mean, his proprietary subtitling software, good for him.
[/quote]
No, I think you're right. I'll keep trying to find the software I'm looking for. But if I don't find it, I won't be too concerned. Thank you for your suggestions anyway, much appreciated. :-)
[Edited at 2021-12-10 03:35 GMT]